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First printed at www.movingpicturesnetwork.com

By Elliot V. Kotek
(from the 2008 Toronto International Film Festival)

Moving Pictures chats with Captain Paul Watson and director Dan Stone of the documentary At the Edge of the World.

Moving Pictures: Welcome to Moving Pictures at Toronto. You’ve been living this tale for quite a while now. How did you come to be on board Captain Watson’s ship with a camera in the first place?
Dan Stone: Actually, it first started with the clubbing of sea lions. I had seen a photo [of that] about four years ago, and I was shocked. I didn’t even know that still existed. And when I was trying to get involved, you know – just as an individual and seeing what was going on – it was very dispiriting, with all the organizations supposedly trying to help (which are largely fundraising organizations). There was one person at an organization whom I respected, and she said, “You should talk to this guy, Paul Watson. He’s actually doing something.”

This was in December of 2006, and I called to their office – I tracked it down – and they said, “Well, he’s in the middle of the Antarctic Ocean.” I said, “What the hell is he doing there?” And they said, “Well, he’s stopping the whalers.” And I was, like, “They’re killing whales, too?”

That’s how it really all began. I got in touch with him first because I was just told he was so into doing something, and then we had talked about doing maybe a TV show. But, because it’s Antarctica, it’s such an amazing location, it just evolved into a film.

PM: How important has recent media been in helping your cause? Is your case being heard?
Capt. Watson:  I think the public is becoming more aware of the issues, because they’re becoming more serious and, therefore, the media coverage of that is reflecting public concern. We’re getting a lot more support now than we did, but the situation is becoming even more desperate. For instance, every year we go down to protect the whales in Antarctica, the opposition, the Japanese whalers, become more aggressive, more violent. But we’re also becoming more effective in stopping them. So, for the last two years, we’ve made sure that they’ve only gotten half their quota, and I think we can put them out of business.

MPM:  The situation was so bad 20 years ago, they enacted legislation to prevent the killing of whales. And in the 20 years since, it seems like every loophole continues to be exploited to its fullest. The fact that these Japanese whaling boats have these huge “Research” signs down their side – does that drive you crazy?
Capt. Watson:  They’re not fooling anybody on the research issue. In 20 years, they haven’t published a single peer review in a scientific paper on research. In fact, the only thing they’ve actually released is the fact they’ve discovered that some whales eat fish. But if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re making about $100 to $200 million a year on sales of whale meat, they wouldn’t be doing this so-called research, and the research has been condemned by the International Whaling Commission.

Since 1986, since the moratorium was imposed, they’ve killed about 18,000 whales. What they’re doing is targeting an endangered species in a whale sanctuary, in violation of the moratorium. So it’s blatantly illegal. What we’re doing is upholding international conservation law by intervening, and we’re empowered to uphold that law by virtue of the United Nations World Charter for Nature, which allows non-government organizations to intervene.

MPM:  And how disappointing is it that, even when you uphold those laws and place civil arrests on the crews of these whaling vessels, the nations and governments won’t stand up to uphold the laws and treaties you’re enforcing?
Capt. Watson:  Well, the problem in the world is that we have all of the laws, the regulations and the treaties we need to protect the world’s oceans and to protect endangered species, but those laws are not being enforced. There’s a lack of political and economic will to enforce the law. So, in other words, governments are complicit with these illegal activities.

You know, for many years people considered us pirates, and we decided, okay, we’ll just adopt our own pirate flag. If you go back to the 17th century, it wasn’t the British Navy that shut down pirates in the Caribbean, because all the British officers and the politicians were on the take, just like politicians today. Piracy was shut down in the Caribbean by Henry Morgan, who was a pirate. So if you want to stop pirates, you need pirates to do it. So we’re pirates of compassion in pursuit of pirates of greed.

MPM: A lot of your crew display a version of the skull and bones flag.
Capt. Watson:  Well, that is our official flag, and, you know, we have a crossed shepherd’s crook and Neptune’s trident. So what it represents is that we’re shepherding and protecting the wild creatures of the ocean.

MPM:  This may be lost in the politics of the situation, but – how exciting is it when you do see a whale or a pod of whales swimming freely?
Capt. Watson:  Not only are whales the largest animals to have ever existed on the planet, larger than any dinosaurs, but they’re also probably the most highly evolved species on the planet, with the largest brain size. To give you an indication, the brain of an average dinosaur was the size of a walnut, and the human brain is 1,300 cubic centimeters. But the Orca, the largest dolphin, has a 6,000-cubic centimeter brain, and a sperm whale, with the highest evolved brain on the planet, has a 9,000-cubic centimeter brain. And all mammals, from mice to people, have a three-lobe brain, with the exception of dolphins and whales, which have a four-lobe brain. But they are a non-manipulative intelligence, and we don’t understand that kind of intelligence.

I was debating a whaler who was giving me a hard time. He said, “Well, you say that whales are more intelligent than people, and this is absolutely a stupid thing to say.” And I said, “Well, look, George, my criteria for intelligence is the ability to live in harmony with the natural world. By that criteria, whales are far more intelligent than we are.” And he said, “Well, that’s ridiculous. By that criteria, cockroaches are more intelligent than we are.” I said, “George, you’re beginning to understand what I’m trying to tell you.” You know, ecologically, we’re not a very intelligent species.

MPM: Do you feel like there’s a change coming? Ecologically, obviously, there’s been some climate change, but in terms of this battle that has been waged for a number of years – do you think there’s traction building? How optimistic are you?
Dan Stone: There’s definitely an awareness of it. There’s definitely a concern for it. As Captain Watson said, there’s a very good chance they’ll be able to stop whaling in the next couple of years, if only for economic reasons, which were the reasons it was being done.

The other side of the coin is, every year they go down there, there are fewer and fewer whales. The Norwegians were out whaling with not much opposition, but couldn’t get their quota because they were just killing off the species. And Watson makes a good point, too, in fact. One is, if the oceans die, we all die, so self-interest should have us interested. The other thing is, the one thing that seems to stop the hunting of these creatures is extinction. That seems to be the one foolproof method to stop it, and we’re getting close to that in a number of cases.

MPM:  What countries provide you the greatest support?
Capt. Watson:  We don’t get a lot of support from governments. Our support comes from people around the world. We are working in partnership with the Ecuadorian National Police and the park rangers to protect the Galapagos. But, generally, the concern comes from individual people. Governments are more involved with working with corporations to exploit the planet than to protect the planet. All social change throughout history has come through the passion of individuals or small groups of individuals. That’s the way it’s always been, and that’s what’s gonna save this planet.

There’s certainly more awareness in the world today than there was 10 years ago – certainly more than 20 and 30 years ago. People are becoming more aware of the problems. Awareness isn’t the problem anymore; it’s getting people to care. People have to care; they have to understand. The problem is, we’re so alienated from the natural world, it’s difficult to get people to become intimately compassionate about what’s happening in Antarctica, for example, or in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

MPM:  How has your outlook or enthusiasm changed over the course of time?
Capt. Watson:  Oh, I think I’ve been pretty consistent. You know, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing since I was 10 years old, which is protecting wildlife.